You’ll soon understand why folks called former partners Mark Paladini and Fern Champion “The Regis and Kathie Lee of Casting.” These two are a fascinating blend of New York Sass and Northern California Cool. To impress upon you their chemistry, I’ve stepped aside, letting their back-and-forth conversation steer itself through a few of the Casting Qs.
Their unlikely partnership began in 1989 with the miniseries War and Remembrance and features such as Cheech and Chong’s Nice Dreams, Pet Sematary, Naked Gun, and the Police Academy series. The pair joined Spelling Television in 1996 to cast Beverly Hills, 90210. At the time of this interview, they were anxiously awaiting the premiere of Titans, Spelling’s short-lived drama for NBC. The partnership was dissolved in late 2001, but both remain active in casting.
Road to this Position
Champion – Many years ago, we did a film called Troop Beverly Hills, and that was Tori Spelling’s first movie, so Mr. Spelling was thanking us, by bringing us on with Beverly Hills, 90210.
Paladini – We get to do a lot of different types of projects because we moved from science fiction…
Champion – Babylon 5.
Paladini – …to half-hour television to a comic book movie to a martial arts special effects extravaganza to gritty independents.
Champion – We’ve been very fortunate to be so eclectic. I think the nature of the casting director’s job keeps you from being bored. You’re entertained every day. You don’t have to have a nine to five grown up job. It’s make-believe.
On Their 12-Year Partnership
Champion – I think we are so opposite. Mark was brought up very strict, Catholic, Italian, and I was the loose Jewess in New York. I was introduced to everybody by first names and he was introduced with last names. I will never get a last name right, but I can go, “Bonnie…” and he’ll go, “Gillespie” and together, we get it right.
Paladini – I lean on her for certain things. You have different things in your life that are stressed as the way you see things, and I need her point of view on things.
Champion – Or he’ll say, “You can’t yell at that person,” and I get back on the phone and don’t yell. Or I say to Mark, “Push harder, push. Sell it.”
Paladini – When we were doing The Mask, reading the Cameron Diaz role, we brought in everyone who could’ve possibly been the right one for this role, even the one who got us a good table at a restaurant. Well, the women really liked Fern, so I leaned on her to give me the female point of view. Fern liked Cameron the second she met her.
Champion – She’s a broad. She’s very confident. We watched her go so far. Mark, I have to say it. I keep saying I’m not going to say it, but it’s such a great story.
Paladini – Go ahead.
Champion – She was my son’s date to his bar mitzvah.
Paladini – So giving!
Champion – I don’t know that $14 million a movie versus being my son’s date is payback, but I think it makes us just about even. She stayed the whole night and she danced only with him. And she had a ball. I promised Mark not to tell the story again, but I had to. That’s a real broad!
Paladini – That’s okay. It’s a good story!
Coolest Casting Gig
Champion – We’re excited about every show we do, every film. I became a hero in my house, doing Mortal Kombat. We’ve had a good time on just about everything we’ve done.
Paladini – That’s what’s so exciting about it.
Champion – With Babylon 5, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn’t know from science fiction.
Paladini – I loved it, just because we had to find a lot of classically trained actors, just to handle the language that Joe Straczynski was putting into it. If you had Troilus and Cressida on your resume, you were seen.
Champion – That was a learning experience for us. It pushed us into theatre. And that meant we brought in quite a few people to Spelling that weren’t getting seen before.
Key Things They Look for in an Actor
Champion – Talent.
Paladini – They gotta bring the material to life. Actors always ask, “What do you look for in a role?” And our response is always, “You show it to me.” We don’t know what we’re looking for until you show it to us. The way you bring it to life is going to be different than the way another actor brings it to life. Some actors are so worried about fitting into what we’re looking for when what we’re looking for is diversity. If we brought in five people who did the exact same thing, if I were a producer, I’d fire us. We want to see actors bring new things to the table, then the director gets to see it, the producer gets to see it.
Champion – We’re encouraged by the company to bring in various ethnicities in positive roles. Mr. Spelling would prefer to use diverse ethnicites in positive as opposed to negative roles…
Paladini – …because it was done for so long within the industry, with stereotypes. We’re lucky because we came from that, with Babylon 5 because Joe Straczynski’s vision of the future was that a general could be any color, any gender. Because we came from that, and, not knowing, walking into this building, what we were going to be walking into, it became very clear that our style of casting was not only appreciated, but encouraged…
Champion – …rewarded, with show after show. That’s great! And casting directors should be enthusiastic about their job every day. If they’re bored with it, it’s time to quit. If they’re tired of doing it, move on.
Paladini – That’s why we recommend term limits!
Champion – That’s the way it should be. It should be up for CSA vote. “No, you’re not allowed to come back. You don’t love your job.” Many of us don’t deserve to be playing anymore. And it’s a pleasure to play.
Pet Peeves
Champion – To all my SAG members out there, I would definitely move to have a reader in the room as opposed to the casting director. I should sit, as a princess, with Mark as a prince, and we should watch your scene. Between reading, and not being very good readers, and looking at your resume, and watching your performance, it’s too much. Just let me be the audience.
Paladini – The union should organize something so that actors do it, they provide readers for themselves so that we can just look at the performance.
Champion – There should be a hotline of readers. The SAG members have not made it an issue.
Paladini – They’d rather complain that casting directors can’t read than actually do something about it.
Champion – It’s a tough process. It’s in the actor’s best interest to have a reader in the room. Of course, you have to prescreen the reader so that the reader doesn’t outshine the actor, but I do believe it is something that would help an actor, enormously. I’ve been on this soapbox for years.
Paladini – Every class we teach, we mention it. The reason it even became an issue was because we hear, “Oh, you’re such good readers!” And they tell us how awful everyone else is.
Advice for Actors
Champion – It’s hard. It’s something requires stamina. You have to learn to reject rejection. When people tell you not to take it personally, where else do you take it? You say, “They’re talking about me. They said no to me. How do I not take me personally?”
Paladini – There are so many reasons why people don’t get the part. Actors have to understand that it’s not a negation of their talent just because they don’t get the part, or just because they don’t get the callback. Honestly, we call back an actor because it’s going to show them off the best. We won’t call back an actor if we know that they’re talented but this role doesn’t show them off the best. We don’t want to burn them with our producers. If they see someone in a role that’s not the best for them, producers will make the judgment that they’re not good…
Champion – …rather than not right for this role. Also, it’s your audition. I’ve got the job, Mark’s got the job. When you walk in the office, you control it. Tell me if you prefer not to talk and just want to do the read.
Paladini – I always say, if you ask a question before your read, be ready to incorporate the answer into your work.
Champion – If you start off on the wrong foot, stop right away. You know when you start off wrong. Stop yourself. It’s your audition. That’s what it’s all about. Also, if you’re going to sit and wait for your agent to do it, get a day job. To be a self-sufficient actor in this town is the ticket. Between sending postcards, trying to find the breakdowns out yourself, going to classes, doing these wonderful workshops, doing these terrific showcases, reading Back Stage West, and going after every god damn audition, learn your craft.
Paladini – When you’re just beginning and you don’t have an agent, and a manager is excited about you and wants to build your career from the very beginning, that’s good.
Champion – But do your homework on that manager.
Paladini – Research them.
Champion – Young talent must be old-brained. Don’t be taken in by the beauty of it all. It’s hard. Life is hard.
Paladini – With pilot season, limit how many auditions you attend in a day. Preparation for an audition is so important, because things can move very quickly. A preread in the morning can lead to a producer’s session, a studio session, and a network session within 24 hours. I don’t agree with the mindset that you can wing it for the preread and if you get a callback, [then] you’ll start preparing. If you connect with the material and confirm your audition, you should show your commitment from the very beginning of the process by preparing for the audition. So many times I’ve heard actors say, “I didn’t read the script because I had four other auditions today.” That’s like going on a first date and saying, “I would’ve showered but I had a couple of dates earlier.”
Best Way to Get Seen by Them
Champion – We appreciate classes and getting involved in workshops and showcases on our lunch hour. We like going to the Improv and the Comedy Store. I like the Groundlings.
Paladini – We have friends that do a lot of theatre. So, we end up seeing a lot of theatre just because our friends are asking us to go to it. When you teach as much as we do, and see our friends’ theatre projects, the stray invitation we’ll attend is rare.
Champion – Go to workshops. We appreciate postcards.
Paladini – Postcards!
Champion – We strongly, strongly, strongly recommend postcards. Instead of wasting money on envelopes and headshots and resumes and postage, send me a postcard. Tell us what you’re doing lately. Tell us what you’ve just done. Tell us what agent you’re with now. Tell us to watch you on a certain thing. The postage is less, and your face is right in front of us. Let your agent send your 8×10. You send a postcard.
Their Opinion on Alternative Submission Methods
Paladini – Online submissions are the future, unfortunately, we’re not yet advanced enough with our computers to fully handle it.
Champion – Our assistants have that set up, but I don’t know that we have the luxury to do the computer casting. I think I’m just an old fashioned kinda gal. I like what I like.
Their Operating System
Champion – We have our own books for people we’ve seen on every project. We try to keep very solid notes. Although, when it’s late in the day, and you go back months later to review some of your notes, you really start to laugh. The notes get a little more absurd or bizarre, as the day goes on.
Paladini – And whenever we have a new assistant, I have to go, “No! No! Don’t read my notes to them! You read them, then interpret my notes and give them feedback.”
Championn – We have little choice numbers or checks because actors are the most brilliant upside-down readers.
Paladini – We create code.
What They Would Change About the Casting Process
Champion – I would change the whole casting process. I hate it. When I see actors sitting in a room, staring at each other, with sweaty palms and parched mouths, they walk in here like they’re just off a desert. I tell them, “Please carry water.” They’re parched! I hate that it never changes, that you always have to audition. Being in the same room with your competition, I think, is the toughest thing. I don’t know any other way, because they would’ve done it already. I think it would’ve been accomplished.
Most Gratifying Part of Their Job
Champion – When you put together a terrific ensemble. When you’ve found someone that everybody’s just, “Whoa! Wow! Incredible,” that just rejuvenates you into being a child again. It’s like getting an A on a test and being rewarded.
Paladini – There are a lot of okay actors out there who will shine in one role. It’s our goal on every project on every episode to find the role that makes you shine, not just the role that makes you okay, not the role that shows you being competent, but the role that makes you shine.
Champion – You have to remain challenged in this business. So, along with stamina, it’s patience. Everything comes around. I love what I do.
Paladini – I love what I do too.
Champion – Sometimes it’s not a blast, and that’s when you sign your own report card. Other times, it’s up on the fridge.
This interview was conducted on September 26, 2000, and it originally appeared in Casting Qs: A Collection of Casting Director Interviews by Bonnie Gillespie, available at Amazon.