Occasionally, I get the opportunity to interview a partnership: two casting directors who have worked together for years, who have a certain simpatico, and who – together – have stronger casting instincts than either would alone. The women who comprise Orpheus Group, Ellyn Long Marshall and Maria E. Nelson, are two such casting directors. Their extensive work in New York theatre has lead to what appears to be a can’t-miss instinct that the pair has brought to feature film casting. If you haven’t heard of Orpheus Group yet, you will. Marshall and Nelson assembled the casts for such independent hits as Girlfight and Real Women Have Curves.
First Casting Job
Marshall – I was a casting director before Orpheus Group was formed in 1986. I worked as a casting assistant at The New York Shakespeare theatre, doing general auditions. I was sent to Los Angeles to cast The Pirates of Penzance in 1979. My first casting job with Orpheus Group was at The Crossroads Theatre.
Nelson – I started casting in 1987. I was an agent prior to actually going into casting. Once Ellyn left the Public Theatre, we did not really decide that we’d go into casting until friends started calling. People were starting to ask us to cast their projects.
Marshall – We both had a wide vocabulary of talent. Theatre had been so much a part of our lives. That’s why people would call us for suggestions. So, we asked ourselves, “Why not? We know everybody!”
Coolest Casting Gig
Marshall – I think it’s the same for both of us. Another Person is a Foreign Country, a theatre piece written by Chuck Me and directed by Anne Bogart.
Nelson – This was site-specific theatre, which is a wonderful idea. They performed this show in a meat-packing plant, an old abandoned nursing home on the Upper West Side, places like that.
Marshall – The theme of the piece was all of our differences and how we’re all the same. Chuck went to extremes. Our casting chore was finding a blind choir, a deaf legit actor…
Nelson – …little people…
Marshall – …a giant – we didn’t quite do that. It was an amazing experience. It was not only a challenge but an enlightening experience for us both. Things we took for granted as casting directors we really learned to look at, such as how to leave phone messages for deaf actors, how to put the sides where the little people could reach them when they came into the lobby.
Nelson – That was the piece that made the media conscious of all of these people with all of these differences. The show got wonderful reviews. It was so incredible. The [Village] Voice called and said they wanted to meet the people that had cast that show, and that marked a real beginning for us: for the actors we cast to get such recognition.
Marshall – It really put a new spin on the casting process and made it a more meaningful process for us.
Do Casting Directors Act as Producers?
Marshall – We think as producers anyway. Even with theatre. We always I do. Casting is a part of that.
Nelson – With first-time directors, we’ll take them by the hand. For example, with Girlfight, this project came to us two years prior to us working on it. We fell in love with the piece and committed to it. Karyn Kusama was a new writer-director and we really tried to steer it in the right direction. That required many, many meetings with Karyn. We really dissected the script. That was rewarding for us.
Marshall – As a casting director, if you’re really doing what you’re supposed to be doing, casting bleeds over into producing. We’re all working very closely to have the same view as the writer-director. We’re making sure that all of the components are right, and that goes beyond the cast.
Key Things They Look for in an Actor
Nelson – Commitment. We take for granted that the talent is there (or we hope it is there). We’re looking for actors who are well-prepared for an audition, both with the material and emotionally. One of the most important things for us is that, when you walk into that room, you leave whatever baggage you have at the door. Leave it outside. The minute you enter that room, you have our eyes on you. Take us on a journey. Whatever you are feeling, we pick up.
Marshall – Our eyes and our minds and our hearts want you to be what we need. It’s not known what is needed. You bring it in and show it to us.
Nelson – You make it happen. You give us the answers. It’s very true. It’s very important. Actors have a way of beating themselves up after an audition. It’s very important for us to let actors know that the audition is something they should enjoy. Just come in and do the best you can do.
Marshall – There is no right and wrong. Every person in that room is a part of a whole, including the auditioning actor.
Nelson – The audition should not only be our experience but the actor’s experience. They’re offering us something very special. We like to work with producers, directors, and writers who make the actors feel special. The actor has to leave the room having taken something from us. Otherwise, what is it about?
Advice for Actors
Marshall – I’d like to encourage actors to perform as readers. We receive letters saying, “I’d love to work as a reader.” We call those actors in. We encourage it. It’s such a learning process. It also helps you as an actor by taking the pressure off the audition situation.
Nelson – The actors will say, “This has been such a rewarding experience, being a reader for you.” It is very important that you go out of your way to be a reader.
Marshall – Plus, we need readers!
Best Way to Get Seen by Them
Nelson – For us, it’s a constant search. Because of the amount of film that we’re dealing with right now, we don’t get a chance to go to as many showcases as we would like. The actors unions invite us to come in and speak to the actors. That’s very important to us. We sometimes cast actors out of those situations. We absolutely open every envelope and we read every resume and then we file it. We will sometimes find someone very interesting and call them in. Postcards are a wonderful way to keep in touch with us. We’re very conscious of that. When I first started agenting the owner used to say, “What you throw away today you’re going to need tomorrow.” So, I keep everything.
Marshall – We seem to be getting most of our films for very young newcomers. That’s another reason to open all of our mail. We find people that way. I’m looking at the industry showcases we attended to scout for Josh Masden’s first film, Maria, Full of Grace. We went wherever there’s a strong Colombian population. For this film, we dealt with the real community as well – not just the actors. We did something similar with Real Women Have Curves. That was cast out of Los Angeles, and we went to Mexico. Maria went to Texas. That’s happening more and more.
Do You Attend Theatre to Scout Talent?
Marshall – Yes we do. We cast theatre. We love theatre. It’s where we come from. Theatre is a good injection between films.
Their Opinion on Alternate Submission Methods
Marshall – I think it’s very effective. It’s necessary. The world is small and getting smaller. We’re not quite up to Internet casting yet, but we’re in the process of making that transition. I think everybody is. It’s as accessible, moreso, than opening the mail.
Nelson – We did a project in London quite a few years ago. Today, Internet casting would be completely essential to that. It’s a link that you cannot, at this stage, do casting without.
Their Biggest Casting Challenge
Nelson – Real Women Have Curves. It was a real search for us to find a young girl who was talented, but who was not in the mainstream because of the weight issue. We really had to go to the schools and colleges and programs where there were just young people who maybe, at times, didn’t have a very good self-image.
Marshall – We needed a young girl who was overweight but who had enough self-confidence and talent to carry a film. Even with Girlfight, it was difficult to find someone age 17 who had the maturity that shows on the screen, within her eyes, right away.
Nelson – We’re dealing with a visual medium, so it’s hard to strike a balance. Casting Real Women Have Curves was very tricky and took us so long. We were very fortunate to have a lot of help. We zoomed into the different programs in the communities. Community leaders helped us a lot.
Marshall – That was true with Maria, Full of Grace as well.
Nelson – When I went to Texas for Real Women Have Curves, I called around and found someone who had a connection with a casting director in Texas who had done searches. We set everything up before I left so that I could cover a lot of ground in a very short period of time. It all came together. The Internet allowed us to link and communicate in a very short period of time. Once you get one person who is connected to the community, getting the information back to the office is the easy part.
Most Gratifying Part of Their Job
Marshall – For me, it’s seeing the finished product. We hadn’t seen anything at all on Real Women Have Curves until it screened at Sundance 2002. I just couldn’t settle down for days after seeing it. I just thought it was beautiful. All of those months of biting my nails and wondering where we were going to find all of these women who form a family in that factory… I just thought it was so beautiful. That’s the most gratifying part, to have an end result like that: beautifully edited. To see those actresses up there, I was in heaven.
Nelson – For me, every once in a while, I’m in an audition situation and someone walks in the the door and is so brilliant, I have to pinch myself. It’s heavenly when it’s all there. That’s when I think, “Aren’t I lucky to be sitting in this room right now?” I love actors and have such respect for them. Actors do a thankless job. The world of their discovery is the most wonderful part of my job.
This interview was conducted on April 10, 2002, and it originally appeared in Casting Qs: A Collection of Casting Director Interviews by Bonnie Gillespie, available at Amazon.